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Just to show that they don't have to look good to work......
BTW, check out Sylvan Wells website to see how stuff like this should be made!

Jig for the lam trimmer to cut rosettes and soundholes. This is the basic Don Teeter Dremel jig, updated along the lines described here by a number of folks. I had to go through my collection of lam trimmers- some have bases that won't let you get a centre close enough to the bit to cut smaller rosettes and soundholes. This is a Bosch which I'm not that fond of, but it works for this.

I put some drill collars on the rods so that I can 'save the setting' if I'm making a bunch of similar cuts. The LED is just a flashlight strapped to the router.
Hardwood taps well, so you can use machine screws for locking, etc. (Please note the AAAA grade fine-grain tonewood that holds the rosette..)

The other one is my 10 minute 'veneer lumbermill' for making veneer strips - a trip to the scrap pile and some drywall screws were required. The toggles could be replaced with clamps- I've had these lying around, waiting to be used.

The Dremel is held in a small drill press vise and slid along. It makes cutting strips a bit easier, though it would be just as effective to use the same jig with a knife for cutting. The main idea was to get my fingers away from holding a straightedge. The clamping boards have sandpaper to help prevent the veneer from sliding around.

Cheers

John

Vey neat rosette cutter, beautiful rosette and clever set up to cut your veneer strips John, do you have a better pic of your set up, care to elaboratemore on this please? Do you feed the wood by hand or push the vise via a sliding bar?

Never mind. Should know better than to post before coffee.Aoibeann39068.3036458333

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Aoibeann

Now that's a gorgeous rosette! I like your veneer cutting set-up - clever and simple. You could adapt it to cut MOP as well -- cool.

The rosette looks like spalted maple to me? What kind of wood did you use for the dark lines?Anthony Z39068.4415509259

Yeah I like the veneer cutting jig. I need to set that up for myself.

Lance had something similar for cutting abalam sheets I seem to recall.

[QUOTE=Serge Poirier] Vey neat rosette cutter, beautiful rosette and clever set up to cut your veneer strips John, do you have a better pic of your set up, care to elaboratemore on this please? Do you feed the wood by hand or push the vise via a sliding bar?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Serge.
You are asking about details of the veneer cutter?
It's very simple- I just slide the drill press vise along- it rides against the edge of the plywood. I just push it by hand- I keep out of the 'line of fire' of the blade and everything is pretty low power so I'm not worried too much. I take it fairly slow. The saw 'just' cuts through the veneer- almost like scoring it as much as cutting. The veneer 'stays put'- the 'saw bed' is screwed to the jig base, and the clamping bar is on top of the veneer, indexed with a couple of screws in loose holes, and clamped with the toggles.
I can send more pics but I don't know that they would clarify much- let me know.
cheers

John

[QUOTE=Anthony Z]
The rosette looks like spalted maple to me? What kind of wood did you use for the dark lines?[/QUOTE]

Thanks.
The rosette is mostly Arbutus (madrone?). These are some of the 'scraps' and less-figured stuff from the pile. Some spalting but a lot of interesting curl and burl as well. I've sawn some sets and will give it a try soon.

The darker lines are mahogany veneer. I just grabbed something straight-grained and dark-ish from the LeeValley veneer box. White line purfling is maple- I think!

As you probably know, it's a lot easier to put these rosettes together with lines between the segments, especially if you are using a water-based glue. It helps to hide mistakes!
John

How is it working with Madrone? They guys I work with have told me that it makes great firewood, if you cut it while its green, because you aren't going to do much with it when it dries. With the last storm there are lots of ads on Craig's list offering free firewood. You cut, you haul. A couple of them were madrone.

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Aoibeann

John, is the MDF a form for your rosette or was that just so you could do show and tell?

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Aoibeann

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] As you probably know, it's a lot easier to put these rosettes together with lines between the segments, especially if you are using a water-based glue. It helps to hide mistakes!
John
[/QUOTE]

Easier and looks great with madrone! Double bonus.

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] [QUOTE=Serge Poirier] Vey neat rosette cutter, beautiful rosette and clever set up to cut your veneer strips John, do you have a better pic of your set up, care to elaboratemore on this please? Do you feed the wood by hand or push the vise via a sliding bar?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Serge.
You are asking about details of the veneer cutter?
It's very simple- I just slide the drill press vise along- it rides against the edge of the plywood. I just push it by hand- I keep out of the 'line of fire' of the blade and everything is pretty low power so I'm not worried too much. I take it fairly slow. The saw 'just' cuts through the veneer- almost like scoring it as much as cutting. The veneer 'stays put'- the 'saw bed' is screwed to the jig base, and the clamping bar is on top of the veneer, indexed with a couple of screws in loose holes, and clamped with the toggles.
I can send more pics but I don't know that they would clarify much- let me know.
cheers

John[/QUOTE]

Thanks much John, it won't be necessary to elaborate furthermore, i think i had my first sip of coffee when i asked!    I'll be able to build me that fantastic jig my friend, thanks again!

Serge

[QUOTE=Aoibeann] John, is the MDF a form for your rosette or was that just so you could do show and tell? [/QUOTE]
It wasn't for show and tell, really. I just took a pic when it turned out OK.
This was the first rosette of this type I'd made and I was also trying out the new jig with the lam trimmer, new cutter, etc. Just getting my hand in after 20+ yrs away from guitar building.
I wanted to run one rosette (made with 'scrap') through the process to see how everything worked before I started on a soundboard. The MDF was at hand when I looked for something flat to glue the rosette into.
I actually prepared the 'ring' of arbutus in a two step process (glue up segments with epoxy, then transfer to a ply workboard (tack down with 5min epoxy in a few spots at the edges) for thickness sanding and cutting to circular shape.
I was surprised it worked OK the first time.

[QUOTE=Aoibeann] How is it working with Madrone? They guys I work with have told me that it makes great firewood, if you cut it while its green, because you aren't going to do much with it when it dries. With the last storm there are lots of ads on Craig's list offering free firewood. You cut, you haul. A couple of them were madrone.[/QUOTE]

Well, that's the legend about arbutus/madrone up here as well. The reality is different. If you air dry good planks, it's possible to get some pretty good wood. I got some 2-inch planks from a Wood Recovery Project (salvage)- the tree was unusually large and apparently wasn't leaning as much as most arbutus, and piled them under the porch for a couple of years, then moved them inside. It mostly dried quite well. Some of the craftsmen making furniture on 'the island' have used arbutus with good luck and no problems. It seems to settle down once it is dry. The climate in the Pacific NW is pretty moderate compared to central Canada and the rest of the US, which probably helps.
That said, if I build a guitar with the stuff, it may explode!

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] [QUOTE=Aoibeann] John, is the MDF a form for your rosette or was that just so you could do show and tell? [/QUOTE]
It wasn't for show and tell, really. I just took a pic when it turned out OK.
This was the first rosette of this type I'd made and I was also trying out the new jig with the lam trimmer, new cutter, etc. Just getting my hand in after 20+ yrs away from guitar building.
I wanted to run one rosette (made with 'scrap') through the process to see how everything worked before I started on a soundboard. The MDF was at hand when I looked for something flat to glue the rosette into.
I actually prepared the 'ring' of arbutus in a two step process (glue up segments with epoxy, then transfer to a ply workboard (tack down with 5min epoxy in a few spots at the edges) for thickness sanding and cutting to circular shape.
I was surprised it worked OK the first time.[/QUOTE]

I didn't know if you had fabricated a form to use and just wasn't seeing how you were going to get the rosette out. It turned out so nice it would be a shame not use use it.

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Aoibeann

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie] [QUOTE=Aoibeann] How is it working with Madrone? They guys I work with have told me that it makes great firewood, if you cut it while its green, because you aren't going to do much with it when it dries. With the last storm there are lots of ads on Craig's list offering free firewood. You cut, you haul. A couple of them were madrone.[/QUOTE]

Well, that's the legend about arbutus/madrone up here as well. The reality is different. If you air dry good planks, it's possible to get some pretty good wood. I got some 2-inch planks from a Wood Recovery Project (salvage)- the tree was unusually large and apparently wasn't leaning as much as most arbutus, and piled them under the porch for a couple of years, then moved them inside. It mostly dried quite well. Some of the craftsmen making furniture on 'the island' have used arbutus with good luck and no problems. It seems to settle down once it is dry. The climate in the Pacific NW is pretty moderate compared to central Canada and the rest of the US, which probably helps.
That said, if I build a guitar with the stuff, it may explode![/QUOTE]

Thanks John, thats good to know. I might just pick up some of the free stuff and see what I can do with it.

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Aoibeann

I am in left field about how you made this rosette, but no matter. I agree with you about the bosch router. I just had a problem with its edge rabbet guide slipping on me while doing binding channels on my second guitar. It worked fine on the first one. What a nighmare. I need to invest in a better binding set up. It's taken me three weeks to painstakingly redo it, including having to bend new thicker wood...whatever. I am still a hack. But my experience with stop collars is they love to slip. I trust tape more on drill bits.
I ended up using my comparatively gigantic and clumsy but nice and smooth porter cable plunge router with the soft start. Completely inapropriate! I feel like a cave man. Still working on aquiring correct tools. My rosette's a bit primitive but I like the way it looks. Purple heart and cherry stripes bordered with snakewood and LMI purfling. I am a carpenter and working with all these super thin delicate pieces of wood scares me. I also used a General circle cutter that was far from ideal. I think it's made for metal.

Pardon my rambling. By the way I discovered that Alder bends really well. Does anyone ever use it? I got some pinkish/red pieces that are very light and smooth. Not sure about strength or tone factors but I'd rather use it than plastic. Seems to bend about as well.

Are you the same John Abercrombie who played jazz guitar? I have this book called Chord Khancepts with your picture in it if so.
   Here's the only progress pictures I can seem to upload now.nickton39070.0970949074

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

Nick-
We should start some new threads to cover some of your questions! Lots of stuff to talk about...

First off- I'm not the 'famous John Abercrombie'- I think he gets pretty well any guitar he wants just by asking- no need to build! Unfortunately I don't share the musical part of the Abercrombie gene pool, either...

I'm pretty inexpert compared to most of the folks around here - there is a lot of good stuff in the archived forums- that's where I got the info about the table saw jig for cutting the segments for rosettes and a lot of other stuff. Tony Karol and a number of other pro luthiers are very helpful, and expert.

My Bosch has a very clumsy shaft lock which involves putting a slotted bar through the top of the router- the bar didn't come with my ebay router, natch... Otherwise it seems OK. I'd like a plunge laminate trimmer with soft start, but I don't think they exist. The PC 309-310 are nice but expensive.

Anything that's hard enough and strikes your fancy can be used for bindings- folks seem to use everything. I wanted thick bindings on the last guitar I made (20 yrs ago) so I ended up laminating two strips of padauk. Just about anything will work, somehow. I've got my eyes peeled for interesting alder, but it doesn't turn up too often around here, and cheap.

Your rosette sounds fine- there are lots of possibilities which can all look good.

John